Help please!

[Patro]

I am 30 and new to fitness/weights. I joined the best gym around and got a trainer who is very experienced and knowledgeable.

My goal was to lose fat and gain muscle, not necessarially at the same time.

In October 2003 I began. The first step was to completely eliminate all alcohol from my diet. I was drinking to get drunk at least 2-3 times a week for the past 12 years. I quit cold turkey. That was easier than easy.

Second was to eliminate all sugar. No ice cream, no candy, no cake, cookies, coke/soft drinks, etc. Easy.

Next was to eliminate all grease, oil, and other junk. No fast food, no fried food. Pretty easy.

These are changes that are permanent. Not a 'diet'. But lifelong standards I have set for myself.

Then with my trainer I did 41 sessions of lifting. One day chest one day shoulders one day back one day legs. Each day either bis or tris. Each training day abs and 5 min cardio warm up plus 20 minutes at the end.

This lasted about 3 months and I lost around 20 pounds of fat, but didn't noticably gain any muscle. I started at about 187 lbs, not muscular (average). 12" biceps and 40" chest.

Now it's early May and I'm still with my trainer but down to around 155 lbs with no noticable muscle increase. But more toned from the lack of fat.

I'm having trouble adding muscle. I won't tell you what my trainer says because I want to hear what you guys advise.

I'm eating 3-5 meals a day, but keeping my calories low, maybe too low. Eating all whole grains, chicken, lots of fruit, lots of vegetables.

What should I change to put on muscle? Have I provided enough information?

Thanks in advance!

[mr_clean]

How many sets and reps are you doing?

You might to revaluated your calorie intake. Maybe add 350-500 calories per day to you diet. You could also decrease the amount of cardio you are doing to 3 times per week.

Lee

[tattoojr]

First off if your trainer is a skinny runner looking geek then fire him. Second look at your diet , to put on muscle you need to put on weight and you do that by eating. Theres a formula in old posts that going something like if you want to weight 200 lbs then you need to eat 4000 cals a day, min.200 grams of protien and about the same for carbs.Break it up into 6 meals a day and use shakes to SUPPLEMENT your food not take the place of. Once you figure out where you want to go then hit the weight hard and HEAVY with good form. Use some of the basics Deadlifts ,bench press, squats, and barbell curls. There is no reason to do any isolating exercizes when your starting out.Remember rest is as important as everything else . Once for get everything on the same page you'll see results. j.R.

[cornfed 2]

Congratulations on your progress so far. You, your desire, and your trainer have done a nice job of getting you on track.

It is pretty tough to loose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Not impossible, just pretty slow.

If your training consists of fairly light weights in the high rep and set range, 90% of people don't gain very well on that unless they have the better living through chemistry thing going on.

The only way to add substantial amounts of muscle lift extremely heavy weights, heavy enough to convince your body that your muscles will die unless they grow, and consume enough excess calories so that your body feels it has enough fuel to feed those new muscles.

Basic mass gaining program should include heavy compounds lifts such as squat, deadlift, military press, incline press, pull-ups, and power cleans with an ever increasing amount of weight.

[Patro]

Originally posted by mr_clean
How many sets and reps are you doing?

You might to revaluated your calorie intake. Maybe add 350-500 calories per day to you diet. You could also decrease the amount of cardio you are doing to 3 times per week.

Lee

I'm doing about 15 reps in 4 sets normally.

Now I'm not doing any cardio, or at least not very often. I only used to do cardio 3 times a week. I've lost a lot of fat already.

[Patro]

Originally posted by tattoojr
First off if your trainer is a skinny runner looking geek then fire him. Second look at your diet , to put on muscle you need to put on weight and you do that by eating. Theres a formula in old posts that going something like if you want to weight 200 lbs then you need to eat 4000 cals a day, min.200 grams of protien and about the same for carbs.Break it up into 6 meals a day and use shakes to SUPPLEMENT your food not take the place of. Once you figure out where you want to go then hit the weight hard and HEAVY with good form. Use some of the basics Deadlifts ,bench press, squats, and barbell curls. There is no reason to do any isolating exercizes when your starting out.Remember rest is as important as everything else . Once for get everything on the same page you'll see results. j.R.

My trainer is in excellent shape with a lot of muscle. Huge arms/chest especially. I've quizzed him about everything I could and then done my own research and it appears that he knows what he's talking about. (I'm always suspicious - everybody thinks they're an expert!)

I know I need to take in more food. But I just lost so much fat and I'm scared I'll put it on again. Rationally, I know I shouldn't but I'm not sure.

How do I know it'll go to muscle?? That's my biggest concern. I guess if I'm working out properly it will.....

I'll tell him I think we should be doing bigger muscle groups I guess...

[Patro]

Originally posted by cornfed 2
Congratulations on your progress so far. You, your desire, and your trainer have done a nice job of getting you on track.

It is pretty tough to loose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Not impossible, just pretty slow.

If your training consists of fairly light weights in the high rep and set range, 90% of people don't gain very well on that unless they have the better living through chemistry thing going on.

The only way to add substantial amounts of muscle lift extremely heavy weights, heavy enough to convince your body that your muscles will die unless they grow, and consume enough excess calories so that your body feels it has enough fuel to feed those new muscles.

Basic mass gaining program should include heavy compounds lifts such as squat, deadlift, military press, incline press, pull-ups, and power cleans with an ever increasing amount of weight.

Thanks for your encouragement. I've done well in losing fat, but that's all. That's easy!

Are my reps/sets ok? I'm doing about 12-15 reps in 3-4 sets most of the time. No squats, deadlifts, power cleans. But I am doing lots of pull-ups, dips, military presses.

Thanks for your help!

[The Guardian]

PROTIEN..... Most important thing to gaining muscle, as far as the diet side of it at least.

Be sure your getting good protiens, and alot of them. Work out heavy and hard. Cut the cardio and lift with everything you got, everytime...

I have a hell of a time gaining so I know how you feel. But as long as you eat alot of protiens and give it 110% you will make gains, and don't worry about gaining fat back. As long as you work out hard everytime you lift. and your diet stays on a healthy track. you will gain muscle and thats it.

Good luck and keep us posted...

[58driver]

I agree with guardian on the protein and JR on how many times to eat a day. Up your calories....good calories not fat an carbs. Change your work out routine. Hit the weights harder with heavier weights and less reps. 3-4 sets max and from maybe 12 reps down to 6 on the last set.....key is heavier weights. I read something about shocking the muscles into growth and it seems to work but you have to use heavy weights. Do less with more weight basically. There was a great topic about a powerlifter that Cornfed knows and how he trains. You might want to look for it. What type of supplements are you using...vitamins creatine...etc.
Great job on the fat loss bro.

[cornfed 2]

A typical bicep/tricep/ and shoulder workout uses about 10% of the muscle mass in the human body. Many people will devote an entire training session to this 10%. Doing a set of squats or deadlifts uses about 70% of the muscle mass in a human body.

Which do you suppose is more beneficial do adding muscle?

Aside from the obvious working of more muscles, deadlifts and squats stress the body in a huge way, causing the body to release growth hormone which of course causes the body to put on even more mass even in those few muscles that aren't directly worked. Short of actually taking growth hormone, this is by far the most efficient way to add mass.

As long as I am on a rant, lower body work is a necessity to a weekly routine. IMO, there is absolutely nothing that looks as ridiculous as a beach body builder with 18" guns and and a set of chicken legs. I saw this guy in the gym, huge lats, big arms, big shoulders, ass so skinny if he would have hopped up and down a couple of times, his fanny pack would have slid down and hit the floor. Looked like he should have been riding in a wheelchair.

[tattoojr]

I've saw that kind of guy at my gym. I knicknamed him V man. Its one thing not having calves but if you ain't got any hams or quads then shame on you. J.R.

[cornfed 2]

Patro,

I think I have the ranting out of my system for a while so I will try something a little more constructive. As you are dropping fat, your apparant muscle size is going to decrease as well. Just like a good well marbled steak, a chubby person has layers of fat within the muscle. Of course as you diet, this fat is decreased, causing the muscle to appear smaller. On the plus side, being less marbled makes you less desirable to cannibals should you frequent the South Pacific.



You mentioned that you have trained for 41 sessions. I don't know how many times a week you are training but that is probably only 8 to 16 weeks. Muscle does take some time to put on, especially if you are trying to lose fat at the same time, don't be discouraged.

I would suggest adding heavy squats and deadlifts to your routine if you can mentally handle them. Both of those excercises are great epitomize the expression "no pain, no gain". Make sure you have someone who knows teach you proper technique. Try adding protein calories slowly and watch your wasteline. Make a weekly assesment of you abs and adjust diet accordingly. A digital camera with a photo every week would be handy for comparison purposes.

Remember when you are soliciting advice, just because it works for one person, doesn't mean that if you do exactly the same that you will get the same results. You really have to try what works for you.

[Patro]

Cornfed:

Thanks for the excellent answer. And everybody else too. But I'm now responding to Cornfed's last post.

I initially did 41 sessions with my trainer, but then did about 30 on my own, now I've signed up for another 36 and have done 12. So in total I've done around 82. And I haven't put on muscle.

But by being on a caloric deficit how could I? And how could I have lost 25 pounds of pure lard?

Psychologically, I feel that I'll get fat again if I eat more. I've learned how to lose fat and it appears that to have a surpluss of calories would make me gain fat - but it SHOULD go to muscle if I'm not eating junk and keeping my protein up like Slim and Guardian suggest.

In fact just today, my trainer suggested I take some supplements to build mass - he asked me to choose between Dymatize Dyma-Lean (42g protein & 4g carbs - I'm not sure what size serving that is though)....and Dymatize Mega Gainer: 30g protein, 89g carbs, 7 fat). They're very different supplements!

I'll suggest to my trainer to do heavier reps but on the other hand he knows my body pretty well and he's a big guy so he knows what he's doing...right?

And I know what you mean by different advice working differently for different people. We're all different. But in the end, I just need to get out there and do what I can and learn what I can in time through experience. I won't take everything that is told to me as being 100% applicable to me.

Thanks for your encouragement. I'm sure you know how it feels to be working your ass off but not growing. (I did, however, tell myself I'd rather lose the fat than put on the muscle. And I've done that so I'm 60% of the way to my goal!)

PS You wrote, "On the plus side, being less marbled makes you less desirable to cannibals should you frequent the South Pacific." I live in SE Asia not far from the headhunters of Borneo!!

[cornfed 2]

If you are trying to lose a lot of fat, you really can't expect to put on a significant amount of muscle. I would worry more about just trying to keep whatever you have.

I wouldn't take that mega gainer, that is just a sugar bomb ready to explode around your waist. Taking a low carbohydrate protein supplement a couple of times per day would be a good idea for most people.

In your lifts, are you doing the same excercises every week, with the same number of reps, sets, and weight? If you are, you can't expect that your body is going to add any muscle as it doesn't need to. Actually, you are genetically programmed to survive under low calorie conditions by reducing your daily caloric expendature. Your body does this by lowering your metabolism and/or reducing your muscle mass. When you are trying to lose fat, the trick is to do it relatively slowly, provide adequate protein, and adequate work load so your body doesn't decide to reduce your muscle.

Good luck

[Patro]

No, I'm not really trying to lose fat anymore. I've already done that part.

We've been progressively increasing the weights on my lifts for the past 6 months or so.

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.